BTI's Fay-Wei Li featured on popular “Ologies” podcast

BTI Associate Professor Fay-Wei Li joined host Alie Ward on Ologies—a top-five science podcast on Apple Podcasts—for a wide-ranging conversation about why ferns matter more than most people realize.

Li, president-elect of the American Fern Society, walked listeners through his research on fern genomics, including the baffling case of a fern species with 1,400 chromosomes and 160 billion DNA base pairs. For comparison, humans have 46 chromosomes and about 3 billion base pairs. Understanding why ferns accumulate such massive genomes remains an active area of investigation for Li's lab.

The practical side of fern science also took center stage. Li described how ferns' remarkable resistance to insect herbivory has led to the discovery of insecticidal proteins now being developed for agricultural crops—work that could reduce reliance on chemical pesticides. Seed company Corteva has already identified promising proteins from ferns for use in corn, with the next generation of crops potentially carrying fern-derived pest resistance.

Li also discussed Azolla ferns and their remarkable role in Earth's climate history. Around 50 million years ago, when the Arctic was a vast freshwater lake, an Azolla bloom sequestered over one trillion tons of carbon dioxide—a process scientists believe helped shift Earth from a warmer climate to cooler conditions.

The interview touched on one of the more unusual moments in Li's career: naming a new fern genus after Lady Gaga. The naming, led by Li and his graduate advisor at Duke, was inspired in part by the pop star's advocacy for equality and individual expression. Lady Gaga has since acknowledged the honor in interviews.

Li's path to pteridology began in Taiwan, where he grew up surrounded by 800 fern species—twice the diversity found across all of North America. That early fascination led to a PhD at Duke University and a career investigating what these unique plants can teach us about survival.

His 2025 book, Ferns: Lessons in Survival from the Earth's Most Adaptable Plants, brings these stories to broader audiences.

Stream the episode on Ologies wherever you listen to podcasts.